Ok, in Freddy vs Jason it's made out that the adults of Springwood managed to render Freddy powerless by deleting all references to him so that their kids wouldn't know anything about him, and thus Freddy wouldn't be able to invade their dreams and attack them. Where does this come from? In NOES2 Freddy was able to get into Jesse's head without Jesse ever having heard of him before, and we was able to kill those two kids in FD who had only just arrived in Springwood and were completely ignorant of him.
Also, I think it's stated in FvJ that the Springwood adults put their plan of forgetting Freddy into action around four years prior to the events in the film. This wouldn't really work though, as Lori and her friends would still have been more than old enough to have some idea about the Freddy urban legend four years ago. Hell, kids aged between 6 and 8 used to ng that jumprope song in the previous flicks.
The whole idea of forgetting Freddy to death doesn't really fly with me. It would have been much better if Freddy had mply been drained of power in some earlier battle at the beginning of the film and required some kind of "blood sacrifice" in the waking world to break into people's dreams, hence sending Jason to Elm St.
Friday 12/18/2009 at 10:48 PM | 59314
It is very posble that the parents were all secretly slipping hypnocil into their kids' food the way Lori's dad was to prevent dreams.
Or maybe nce Freddy was in hell for so long
that he needed to build his powers back up. Once people had a fear in general again, he would have probably been free to roam the dreams of anyone he wanted.
Friday 12/18/2009 at 11:23 PM | 59315
Good points Dan. The Freddy vs Jason vs Ash comics obviously carry on from FvJ, and I personally conder those comics canon, so therefore FvJ is canon, or at least "semi-canon."Watching FvJ, I mply ignore all the crap about "No knowledge of Freddy = safety". When reading FvJvA, all that really needs to have gone before is:
- Sometime after Freddy's Dead, Freddy somehow managed to return to Springwood (As for how the town got all its kids back, that's another story.
- Freddy was powerless in the dream world and needed someone to kill for him (milar to NOES2 really).
- Freddy got Jason to come to Springwood and kill some friends of Lori's, e.g. Gibb and Gibb's boyfriend.
- Lori, her boyfriend and remaining pals brought Freddy and Jason to Crystal Lake where they duked it out and Freddy got owned by Jason.
Actually, when you think about it, FvJ doesn't really mess up the Freddy legend much more than NOES2 and FD did.
Friday 12/18/2009 at 11:26 PM | 59316
The only thing that really bothered me as far as bad continuity from the previous films, was Freddy needing Alice to reach more victims in 4 and 5; but suddenly being able to kill anyone he wanted in Freddy's Dead.
The whole Alice storyline should have definitely been resolved and that point addressed before they rushed to killing him off.
Friday 12/18/2009 at 11:30 PM | 59317
I love Nightmare talk. Now keep in mind this is all straight from the misguided imaginations of the writers; invented for the film just to bring Freddy and Jason together. Yes, there were many times where Freddy would enter the dreams of someone who didn't fear him beforehand (including Jason's in this very film). Even more, in four of the films he would erase knowledge of himself, milar to what they did to him in Freddy vs. Jason. Shannon and Swift turned Freddy essentially into Candyman, and it's one of the reason why I've never been able to buy into the film.
So that's the truth, but it's still fun to "speculate", right?
Alice's arc finished in the comics and is condered canon. Bacally her leaving Springwood allowed Freddy his freedom. She was the Master of Dreams and Jacob acted as a conduit, inheriting her powers like a child would the color of his eyes. In the comics this even afforded Jacob an awesome psychic ability.
So what it looks like is that Alice's leaving Springwood afforded Freddy some liberty within the borders of Springwood. There was also this crazy chick thatis communicating with Freddy. This can be seen as someone doing work FOR him to give him more power.
The event of that comic took place before Freddy's Dead. Which can explain how he got more power to further terrorize the town.
Now between Freddy's Dead and FvJ. Freddy is defeated by his own daughter and drained of power by the expulon of the dream demons. His daughter then goes insane as she imagines herself becoming her father. During this period while Freddy is "dead" the parents, newly freed from his mass psychos devise their plan to forget about him. Through out all of the films it is alluded that fear of him and fighting him outwardly gives him power.
Therefore if the kids who dreamt him are quarantined and those who had not yet made contact are never informed... he can't come back.
Friday 12/18/2009 at 11:43 PM | 59318
This is actually one of the things I enjoy most about the series. These (minor, in my opinion) loose ends that you can conder but which ultimately don't matter a ton. And which you can usually attribute to something remotely reasonable if you just go, "Well, let's say there was a year between this one and the last one. What could have happened in the meantime?"
But the danger with something like that is not establishing the rules for the given film within the film itself in some sort of reasonable method or within a reasonable timeframe. So say there were 14 NOES movies and in number 14 they just decided to have the movie go 84 minutes without addresng how Freddy came back after 13, then have a spaceship land on Freddy at the end. And then had aliens come out and go, "We're the ones that gave Freddy his power this time!" It's like doing four revelatory elements at once - all once they seem like an afterthought. A spaceship?! Aliens exist?! They gave Freddy his powers?! This isn't a crappy dream sequence to end the film?! WTF?!
Stupid things like that are the danger with accepting this method of storytelling. But if we don't accept this method, there's a very good chance we'd essentially end up with a character that NEVER changes, NEVER does much of anything new, etc. And I think one of the things people appreciated most about Krueger was that he would seemingly innovate a new way to kill someone or torture someone or have a new mison himself in each film or whatever.
So if our options are minor leaps in logic or tepid storytelling, I prefer minor leaps in logic any day.
Hell, the premise of the entire series requires the "minor leap in logic" of accepting that phantasms of the mind, born out of reality, can exist and kill people. Which is fairly outlandish in the first place.
Saturday 12/19/2009 at 01:13 AM | 59320
It's hard to judge how Freddy's evil powers work, but after a full analysI came to a concluon that it's far enough for Freddy if only ONE person knows about him . In this case, Freddy can have effect on other people. Remember the second Nightmare on Elm Street movie? The coach never knew about Freddy, and still, he was killed. Or take Yvonne from Nightmare 5 - she refused Freddy's existence from the very beginning, and at that time, Alice was the only one who believed in him.
There is also a posble parallelity between the number of "believers" and Freddy's power. The more people know about Freddy ,the bigger influence he has, the more powerful he is. This can be seen in the 3rd Nightmare, when Nancy is shocked by the fact that impaling Freddy with that iron stick hardly caused any damage on him.
This leads us to the consequence that Freddy cannot be really "killed" by no means, as long as its memory lives. He can be temporarily tranquilized for a year or perhaps even two years, but then he'll eventually comes back.
Saturday 12/19/2009 at 01:19 AM | 59321
A few pointers, you don't have to believe in him. He feeds on fear and if he is given enough he can influence reality.
He gets Yvonne and the others in Nightmare 4 and 5 because Alice/Jacobs dreams pulled them into the dream delivering them to Freddy. Freddy couldn't get anyone else without Alice's intervention.
The Coach in nightmare 2 is presumably of the same stock as the other adults in the nightmare series, especially as a teacher if he lived in Springwood during the murders he knows about Freddy. If he wasn't, there is also the fact that Freddy was coming into the waking world via Jesse's body. So no one needed to be asleep for Freddy to get them in Nightmare 2.
Freddy's strength in part 3 came from the souls of the children he had already killed. The souls made him stronger. I think most people treat it like Freddy has a ngular power source. He does not. The fear gives him the power to invade dreams (pre-introduction of dream demons), the souls increase his strength. Post dream demons, they gave Freddy the power to harness the fear to invade the dreams if we are to make leaps in logic as to how it works.
He can be defeated but evil never dies. It is this that the parents used in FvJ to beat him. They essentially erased him from the record and quarantined any child who came in contact with him, they treated him like a disease until he was left powerless with no fear to bring him back. Not killed, just defeated... neutralized.
Jesus I pay too much attention to these films.
Saturday 12/19/2009 at 01:45 AM | 59322
He will come back sooner or later....his house still remains untouched. If we conder Freddy's house as the "main base of operations", he will have a solid link between Earth and his "resting place" to come home to. It is strange that no one ever thought about taking down the house.
Saturday 12/19/2009 at 02:06 PM | 59332