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John Carpenter's HALLOWEEN an Exact Rip of BLACK CHRISTMAS - What?

I have been a horror fan all of my life and I really get into the slasher genre or at least that's where I gravitated towards as I got a little older. I have been a fan of the original 1978 John Carpenter "HalloweeN" all my life and have always heard that the holiday themed film "Black Christmas" directed by Bob Clark was the grounds for which Carpenter quote "stole" all his ideas for "HalloweeN". Now I have never had the chance to watch "Black Christmas" but a friend of mine let me borrow it and I figured what better time of year than now to finally t down and watch it.

First off, my hats off to "Black Christmas" for being one of, if not, the first ever true slasher films. I thought it was a good movie although a bit slow at times. My real reason that I wanted to watch it though was that I have always heard that Carpenter pretty much stole all of Bob Clark's ideas and turned around and made "HalloweeN' in 1978. I wasn't sure of "Black Christmas" just didn't do good at the box office and Carpenter felt like he could get away with it or what happened, I just have always heard the film was almost a rip of "Black Christmas". I can tell you after watching it, it certainly is not!

While "Black Christmas" may be a holiday themed movie much like "HalloweeN" and the first person point of few with the heavy breathing mimics the way Michael Myers breaths in the original film, that is where the milarities stop. I can't imagine people saying that Carpenter ripped off the script or film techniques from Bob Clark, the movies couldn't be more different. If "Black Christmas" can be compared to any modern day slasher I would say it would have to be Wes Craven's 1996 "Scream" with all of the phone calls and guesng who the killer is. Why don't people get on Craven for stealing Bob Clark's ideas? Ludicrous!

I'll take nothing away from "Black Christmas" at all, I thought the film was a great little slasher flick. It involves a house of sorority girls that are being terrorized by some manic that is killing and calling people from inde the house. And for it to be made in 1974 when slashers weren't around I can imagine it was pretty ground-breaking but "HalloweeN" it is not. And did I miss something or do we still have no idea who the killer is at the end of the film?

I'd love to hear from other fellow Bidites here on why there is this myth that the films are so milar to the point that people call Carpenter a thief for stealing ideas. I didn't get that from the watch at all. I guess I need to watch the remake of "Black Christmas" now to see if it is truly as bad as people say it is also. What do you guys think? Am I crazy here?



http://youtu.be/08U_JOv-6_Y

Bob Clark has pretty much hinted as such in interviews in the past. He has mentioned that Carpenter didn't rip off his film completely, but more or less ripped off his idea for a sequel. The interview below is pretty blunt in declaring that Halloween is indeed Bob Clark’s sequel to Black Christmas.

After I made Black Christmas, John Carpenter asked if I was going to do a sequel, but I said “No, I don’t intend to I’m not here to make horror films, I’m ung horror films to get myself established. If I was going to do one, though, I would do a movie a year later where the killer escapes from an asylum on Halloween, and I would call it Halloween.” As John has pointed out, the movie he was offered already had that title, and he wrote a screenplay. And then several movies ripped Black Christmas off.

Check out the rest of the interview below.



http://www.canuxploitation.com/interview/clark.html

If I was going to do one, though, I would do a movie a year later where the killer escapes from an asylum on Halloween, and I would call it Halloween.” As John has pointed out, the movie he was offered already had that title, and he wrote a screenplay. And then several movies ripped Black Christmas off.

I was always under the impreson that when John and Debra wrote the Halloween screenplay, it was originally called "The Babytter Murders" and was changed to "Halloween" much later (to appeal to a broader audience).

If I was going to do one, though, I would do a movie a year later where the killer escapes from an asylum on Halloween, and I would call it Halloween.” As John has pointed out, the movie he was offered already had that title, and he wrote a screenplay. And then several movies ripped Black Christmas off.

I was always under the impreson that when John and Debra wrote the Halloween screenplay, it was originally called "The Babytter Murders" and was changed to "Halloween" much later (to appeal to a broader audience).

QFT!!also DO NOT watch that remake

it was so freaking bad it made the Psycho remake look decent

Maybe it's just me but it sounds more like the guy in BC is snoring instead of breathing in the beginning scene. Devianted septum perhaps?

lol

Well this is a great topic because John Carpenter admits himself that Bob Clark did indeed give him somewhat of a vague idea for Halloween, a guy who escapes from an asylum and stalks babytters (Hence the title the Babytter Murders). As for the title of Halloween that is a big debate and I've heard and read different assumptions on how the title came about. It is a totally different kind of slasher flick that Halloween but I am a huge fan of both of these films.

I will agree that Black Christmas can be somewhat slow at parts and dated as well but the vintage and cold feel of it makes it really powerful.

You are right that we do not know who the killer is at the end of the film and he is still in the attic! I think that's an awesome ending because it keeps you thinking. I haven't seen the remake but I have seen the opening and it is way different than the original.

I am crossed on whether to watch the rest of the remake or not.

Well this is a great topic because John Carpenter admits himself that Bob Clark did indeed give him somewhat of a vague idea for Halloween, a guy who escapes from an asylum and stalks babytters (Hence the title the Babytter Murders). As for the title of Halloween that is a big debate and I've heard and read different assumptions on how the title came about. It is a totally different kind of slasher flick that Halloween but I am a huge fan of both of these films.

I will agree that Black Christmas can be somewhat slow at parts and dated as well but the vintage and cold feel of it makes it really powerful.

You are right that we do not know who the killer is at the end of the film and he is still in the attic! I think that's an awesome ending because it keeps you thinking. I haven't seen the remake but I have seen the opening and it is way different than the original.

I am crossed on whether to watch the rest of the remake or not.

Don't waste your time with the remake. It's alot like the remake of HalloweeN, in that they give billy a back story and all. It's pathetic.

As for how HalloweeN got it's title, Irwin Yablans suggested it to JC.

I've always wished that HalloweeN had stayed the same as Black Christmas, in the sense that there weren't any sequels, let alone, the remakes.

Well this is a great topic because John Carpenter admits himself that Bob Clark did indeed give him somewhat of a vague idea for Halloween, a guy who escapes from an asylum and stalks babytters (Hence the title the Babytter Murders). As for the title of Halloween that is a big debate and I've heard and read different assumptions on how the title came about. It is a totally different kind of slasher flick that Halloween but I am a huge fan of both of these films.

I will agree that Black Christmas can be somewhat slow at parts and dated as well but the vintage and cold feel of it makes it really powerful.

You are right that we do not know who the killer is at the end of the film and he is still in the attic! I think that's an awesome ending because it keeps you thinking. I haven't seen the remake but I have seen the opening and it is way different than the original.

I am crossed on whether to watch the rest of the remake or not.

Don't waste your time with the remake. It's alot like the remake of HalloweeN, in that they give billy a back story and all. It's pathetic.

As for how HalloweeN got it's title, Irwin Yablans suggested it to JC.

I've always wished that HalloweeN had stayed the same as Black Christmas, in the sense that there weren't any sequels, let alone, the remakes.

Well I wish they would have stopped at 2, I actually really like Halloween 2 and him burning at the end is a great end to any series.

Black Christmas is my alltime favorite horror film, but i also LOVE Halloween. I don't think Carpenter "ripped off" Bob Clark, i think he admired his worked and borrowed heavily from his masterpiece. As the OP mentioned, the only parts that were blatantly ripped off from Black Christmas are the POV scenes.

People who label Black Christmas as boring, flat out don't understand and/or fully respect the horror genre and its roots. I'm not gonna mince words here. The movie is as close to technical perfection as it gets. The lighting, camerawork, acting, and dread level are all second to none.

It is very debatable. I watched Black Christmas lately, but I watch Halloween a lot more, and frankly, I wouldn't compare the two. Both directors have claimed several different things. Either way, both films are different, and I think Halloween is the superior film. I think Laurie Strode was more innocent than the lead role in black christmas, because she was a virgin, and she wouldn't have even thought about abortion.

It is very debatable. I watched Black Christmas lately, but I watch Halloween a lot more, and frankly, I wouldn't compare the two. Both directors have claimed several different things. Either way, both films are different, and I think Halloween is the superior film. I think Laurie Strode was more innocent than the lead role in black christmas, because she was a virgin, and she wouldn't have even thought about abortion.

Very true, Laurie is much more likable and I'm pretty sure that both Directors are pretty satisfied by having the best films for two very popular holidays.

In some ways or others, people Always use ideas from other films/people. Doesn't necessarily make it a ripoff.

I concur. Black Christmas' opening scene has an uncanny and certainly questionable milarity to Halloween's opening scene. But after that their very different movies.

We cover Black Christmas in depth in our newest podcast.

I agree with the OP.

Even the POV shots have a different feel between the two films.

The killers are completely different kinds of crazy.

Michael doesn't speak, Billy does and its the phone calls that he makes that really gives him the creep factor.

Michael's lurking with his supernatural patience and mortality makes his character.

Michael is focused while Billy is complete chaos.

Their concluons aren't milar.

The only thing milar I get from each movie is the dread and a genuine feeling of being part of the holiday that they are set in.

Both are excellent horrors.

The milarities end there.

In honor of the topic i whipped up a retro with some HALLOWEEN accents ; ) enjoy and merry Xmas all!

Cheers ~ Jim Means

In honor of the topic i whipped up a retro with some HALLOWEEN accents ; ) enjoy and merry Xmas all!

Cheers ~ Jim Means



Damn I want that poster!

Guess i can take that as a compliment man thanks!

Can't take all the credit however for the tree/victim image (center) is original. The layout around it, the font and tagline however my idea. A fun tribute for sure and love how the HALLOWEEN font draws the 2 films together somewhat. Regards JIM MEANS