Forums Horror Collectibles
Deadbeat Sellers/Makers....How has this changed the hobby?

Thanks again to everyone that posted!!!!

Andrew
jackinthebox600 Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 02:42 PM | 24229
Of course it's changing... There are a couple of very vible mask makers that have screwed people over and caused everyone to be uncomfortable sending money to anyone. The sad thing is people continue to send them money, knowing they screwed other people. I myself hate waiting more that 2 weeks for anything I order. That's why none of my customers wait more than 4 weeks max for anything I sell. I never get people asking "where is my mask". Lee Lambert is a good one to ask about this. He's waited 6 months to a year for a ngle mask to be made and shipped to him from a well known mask maker. There is no excuse for this.

All it takes is getting most peoples ass' out of bed everyday, make what they ordered and ship the fucking thing.

I've noticed an attitude by some makers that say, "Hey, if they want my stuff they get to wait". Then they spend the money including the shipping and when the time comes to ship it...OOPS...no money....it'll go out tuesday....then another week...then another week. That is unacceptable. That money is not theirs until the merchandise is shipped, period!
HorrorSanctum Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 03:22 PM | 24230
I can honestly say that i am not a patient person when it comes to getting toys in the mail.

I am not the one who sends out emails because i know that masks take time.

I just cant wait... LOL Kind of like a little kid who can't wait for santa to bring the presents.

As far as trust issues are concerned, I think there have been a few people that people have trusted and they dont follow through.

Not to point fingers but some people are still waiting for their mask/money from a few trusted people.

It sucks that you are feeling the pressure because some people give mask makers a bad name.
Evildsm Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 03:25 PM | 24231
Of course it's changing... There are a couple of very vible mask makers that have screwed people over and caused everyone to be uncomfortable sending money to anyone. The sad thing is people continue to send them money, knowing they screwed other people. I myself hate waiting more that 2 weeks for anything I order. That's why none of my customers wait more than 4 weeks max for anything I sell. I never get people asking "where is my mask". Lee Lambert is a good one to ask about this. He's waited 6 months to a year for a ngle mask to be made and shipped to him from a well known mask maker. There is no excuse for this.

All it takes is getting most peoples ass' out of bed everyday, make what they ordered and ship the fucking thing.

I've noticed an attitude by some makers that say, "Hey, if they want my stuff they get to wait". Then they spend the money including the shipping and when the time comes to ship it...OOPS...no money....it'll go out tuesday....then another week...then another week. That is unacceptable. That money is not theirs until the merchandise is shipped, period Well said Sam!
Evildsm Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 03:25 PM | 24232
...........
jackinthebox600 Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 03:33 PM | 24234
I'm that impatient little kid that watches for the mailman.

I don't usually get too worried until about 5 weeks, right before the PayPal claim cutoff. If I'm given a shipping date, I expect the seller to keep within that window or keep me informed if it's going to take longer.

I've been buying, selling, and trading stuff online for over ten years, it wasn't until I started buying masks that I got ripped off. I don't know what that says about this hobby, but there are some unscrupulous people in the "horror community".
Snoballz Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 04:17 PM | 24239
I don't like waiting for things in the mail either and Sam is right . . . until that person's merchandise is in the mail it's still their money.

HOWEVER, if an auction or purchased item says allow "X" amount of weeks for delivery a buyer shouldn't start sending "aggresve" e-mails well before the "said" due date and start freaking out

(that's happened to me multiple times and it's EXTREMELY annoying to say the least).

I understand if a buyer has been screwed before then they would be concerned and cautious wanting constant updates but if the wait time is listed then there is no need for "freak out" messages.

Now, as a common courtesy a seller should give updates but every day is a bit ridiculous. (and I've seriously had a guy ask for an update everyday for 2 weeks straight . . .WOW!)

So I think it's a balance between Buyers and Sellers.

Sellers should try to get things out in a timely fashion (to the best of their capability) however they should keep the buyers updated 2 -3 times a week.

A Buyers should be a little patient and not send freak out messages if they haven't gotten an item before the stated due date of the purchased item (now if it's passed a promised due date . . .that's a different matter entirely).

I've been buying, selling, and trading stuff online for over ten years, it wasn't until I started buying masks that I got ripped off. I don't know what that says about this hobby, but there are some unscrupulous people in the "horror community".

Yeah, I've read more rip off stories with the mask community than another other hobby.

It's really sad and hurts buness for people like Sam & Casey.
DaShape Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 07:33 PM | 24253
I don't think it's got anything to do with lack of trust. It's more likely to do with how people are these days. They want everything straight away and seem to be lacking in intelligence which is why they didn't notice the info about how long it takes. I remember selling something on E-Bay earlier this year. The auction ended at around 7.00pm. The guy paid for it that night. Early next morning I had a message from him asking me if I'd posted it yet. The auction had only ended the night before, give me chance!! The amount of stupid people in this world is unbelievable.
Sourfacedbastard Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 07:52 PM | 24258
.....................
jackinthebox600 Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 08:22 PM | 24260
I will also add this, that after a customer sends me a message and seems a bit freaked out, i never respond back negative in anyway.

I bacally state the status of their order and thank them for the order.

9times out of 10, everyone has been cool after that response......Thanks again guys for your response......

This is a great topic Andrew, thanks for posting this up.

I think we can all agree that shady sellers have really put some buyers in a panic over orders.

A few ruin it for the rest

DaShape Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 09:19 PM | 24263
the way i see it i very rarely order anything that isnt already made. i dont have the patience to buy something thats made to order, fork out 200 to 400 bucks and wait till god knows when to get it, it does make you nervous, i mean if i order a mask and pay over 100 bucks i better have that puppy within 2 weeks, thats just me, there is no excuse to make people wait for months on end.

on that note you would be amazed at the amount of people who pester me on H-Bid about their dvds they get from me. i had one guy email me everyday for 4 days straight asking if i sent them yet and said he was worried about being ripped off. Its like "dude you bought 20 dollars worth on a monday and i specifically stated i only ship fridays or saturdays depending on my work schedule because the post office is CLOSED when i get out of work"

i mean damn get a grip i always ship the same week that someone buys if you buy on sunday its going out friday or saturday if you buy on friday its going out saturday.

im done rambling
Johnny Bisco Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 10:21 PM | 24276
It goes both ways in this hobby. Yes there are more than a few mask makers out there who have ripped people off and there are some very unreasonable buyers out there too.

I think there are also a lot of buyers out there that are very cautious due to all the horror stories floating around out there about people getting ripped off. I'll have an average of maybe one bad transaction for every 50 good ones but nobody ever asks me about the good ones, they only want to hear the bad. As a result, there's a misconception that the problem is more widespread than it actually is. I'm not impatient at all when it comes to wait times, but there is a point where it becomes unreasonable. Waiting a couple months is no biggie for me but when it gets to be in the 5-6 month range it's a bit much. I'm still waiting on one I paid for in September of '07.The problem goes beyond the mask makers. Some collectors will flat out try and rip people off. A good example is the '81 McCain Shape mask I purchased. The guy took the money and mply refused to ship the mask (after a few months I finally got my money back).
lblambert Tuesday 11/18/2008 at 11:38 PM | 24337
It goes both ways in this hobby. Yes there are more than a few mask makers out there who have ripped people off and there are some very unreasonable buyers out there too.

I think there are also a lot of buyers out there that are very cautious due to all the horror stories floating around out there about people getting ripped off. I'll have an average of maybe one bad transaction for every 50 good ones but nobody ever asks me about the good ones, they only want to hear the bad. As a result, there's a misconception that the problem is more widespread than it actually is. I'm not impatient at all when it comes to wait times, but there is a point where it becomes unreasonable. Waiting a couple months is no biggie for me but when it gets to be in the 5-6 month range it's a bit much. I'm still waiting on one I paid for in September of '07.The problem goes beyond the mask makers. Some collectors will flat out try and rip people off. A good example is the '81 McCain Shape mask I purchased. The guy took the money and mply refused to ship the mask (after a few months I finally got my money back).

To clerify he didn't buy it from me....
HorrorSanctum Wednesday 11/19/2008 at 12:09 AM | 24347
It goes both ways in this hobby. Yes there are more than a few mask makers out there who have ripped people off and there are some very unreasonable buyers out there too.

I think there are also a lot of buyers out there that are very cautious due to all the horror stories floating around out there about people getting ripped off. I'll have an average of maybe one bad transaction for every 50 good ones but nobody ever asks me about the good ones, they only want to hear the bad. As a result, there's a misconception that the problem is more widespread than it actually is. I'm not impatient at all when it comes to wait times, but there is a point where it becomes unreasonable. Waiting a couple months is no biggie for me but when it gets to be in the 5-6 month range it's a bit much. I'm still waiting on one I paid for in September of '07.The problem goes beyond the mask makers. Some collectors will flat out try and rip people off. A good example is the '81 McCain Shape mask I purchased. The guy took the money and mply refused to ship the mask (after a few months I finally got my money back).

To clerify he didn't buy it from me....

That's right...have never had a ngle problem doing buness with Sam.
lblambert Wednesday 11/19/2008 at 12:27 AM | 24354
Of course it's changing... There are a couple of very vible mask makers that have screwed people over and caused everyone to be uncomfortable sending money to anyone. The sad thing is people continue to send them money, knowing they screwed other people. I myself hate waiting more that 2 weeks for anything I order. That's why none of my customers wait more than 4 weeks max for anything I sell. I never get people asking "where is my mask". Lee Lambert is a good one to ask about this. He's waited 6 months to a year for a ngle mask to be made and shipped to him from a well known mask maker. There is no excuse for this.

All it takes is getting most peoples ass' out of bed everyday, make what they ordered and ship the fucking thing.

I've noticed an attitude by some makers that say, "Hey, if they want my stuff they get to wait". Then they spend the money including the shipping and when the time comes to ship it...OOPS...no money....it'll go out tuesday....then another week...then another week. That is unacceptable. That money is not theirs until the merchandise is shipped, period

I agree with Sam 100%. I never touch a customers money until the product is sent out. That is how buness works. I always send things out on time and almost always 99% of the time hit the 4 week mark when it says 4-6 or 8 weeks on the te. Truthfully I can't remember the last time anything took longer than 4 weeks.

People sometimes suck and the moral of the story is if you suck then don't sell things. Our company gets the occaonal (is it done yet and can I have an update everyday) messages from time to time and ever nce the economy hit the fan it seems to happen more and more but things still roll out on time.
quietonthesetstudios Wednesday 11/19/2008 at 01:14 AM | 24362
I know what you mean.

It's really insane how scared people are of being ripped off.

I've even started to build a custom figure once I have a ngle bid, knowing that it will need to go out immediately upon payment.

Being fairly new to this, I made too many mistakes this year.. before I officially opened a store.

I was just doing custom work for friends on another forum, and people kept bombarding me with orders.

I wanted to slow down and stop accepting them, but the Wife was screaming for the need for bill money... so I took them all.

I was soon buried under work, some people waited a year, some 6-8 months... And it really bothered me.

I hated it, I am STILL working through it all.

But I learned a valuable lesson.The most important thing is to be honest about the wait time, second you have to be open to communicate with your buyers.

If you do this, and deliver quality goods... You will be ok.

That's what I do... And I let people know if I find myself behind due to school or home issues.

I am doing my best to ensure that with any of my Horrorbid sales, I never let it get like that.

In fact I sold my first figure today!

And I already have it built and ready to ship... which is nice.


DarkArtist81 Wednesday 11/19/2008 at 01:24 AM | 24365
The most important thing is to be honest about the wait time, second you have to be open to communicate with your buyers.

If you do this, and deliver quality goods... You will be ok.

That's what I do... And I let people know if I find myself behind due to school or home issues.

This is so true...I think most people are understanding and if you're open and honest with them, they'll respect you for it.
lblambert Wednesday 11/19/2008 at 01:32 AM | 24370
It's all about communication with me.

If you give me a time frame and don't meet it, then all I ask for is a mple one sentence update.

I'm fairly patient, and I normally don't bother makers for status updates before the due date, but if it's past due then I want to know why.

I can live with the wait, but I won't tolerate the lack of communication.

I waited on my Smith's Grove H20 for roughly a year, but Tom periodically updated his order status page and responded quickly to the few emails I sent him during that time, so I would buy from him again in the future.

Other items have taken a fraction of that time to get to me, but they went past their due dates and the makers ignored my inquiries, so I will never buy from them again.

I wish all artists could understand that a little communication goes a long way.
gummi Wednesday 11/19/2008 at 08:27 AM | 24421
very well said guys.

It really does put everything in perspective. This hobby has changed greatly over the years and I pray we get back to the way things use to be....
Horror Domain - Cursed Evil Overlord Sunday 11/23/2008 at 11:58 AM | 25113
very well said guys.

It really does put everything in perspective. This hobby has changed greatly over the years and I pray we get back to the way things use to be....

Much like Gas every costing $1.00 per gallon, I highly doubt it will ever be how it used to be.
Evildsm Sunday 11/23/2008 at 10:36 PM | 25155
Nothing compares with GAS. But I see that in USA you didn't have SO much problems on internet busnes. I'm sorry to say that here, Bral, the thing is quite different. You lost your money, your patiente, go to the police and nothing happens! Anyway, if someday the mask busnes were better than today, I hope it could be back soon. And if someday the prices go down, I should bought some nice stuff for me from USA.
L√úCKMANN Monday 11/24/2008 at 09:35 AM | 25206
I have been a part of this hobby for a long, long, long time. I have seen alot of things happen both good and bad.

The quality of the work being produced today is amazing.

Not only that, but the choices of what to buy and who from have grown exponentially as

well. Now....with that being said....this hobby is being driven straight into the ground because of all the scammers and bad bunessmen and women out there.

It is also being hurt by ridiculous pricingThere was a time in this hobby when you could ealy send your money to a mask maker or a fellow collector and there was never a hint of doubt in your mind about being scammed.

You sent the money and if it was a collector, you got it within a week.

If it was a maker, you got it in no more than a month or so.

This cannot be said now.

I know there are exceptions to every rule and life happens. But for the vast majority of tuations, that is utter and complete bullshit. No collector should take more than a couple of weeks at most to get a piece out to another collector.....PERIOD...NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!

If i were ck or in a hospital, I would get my wife to send the stuff out.

Hell, I have even gotten my mother to send stuff out for me when I knew I would have a hard time getting to the post office.

Mask makers are allowed more leniency of course, because of the obvious fact that they are making the piece in question.

That still does not give them carte blanche

to take as long as they want.

I don't care about what is going on in their lives, what other job they have, what movie work has come up, what mold issue has arisen, what paint is too thick, the price of latex, the cost of hair, your power bill, your alimony, your welfare check, your dog's medical expenses, or how bad your big toe hurts.

You took my money in good faith for a product.

In the buness world, you are obligated to fulfill your end of the transaction.

If you tell me 4-6 weeks, then it should be no more than 4-6 weeks....end of discuson. Now, I know people are gonna jump out of the woodwork and say..."Tommy, that's kinda cold man...makers have personal lives too...and some things come up that they have no control over."

Ya know what, you are exactly right...but so do I and everyone else in the world. I am not a cold hearted bastard, and if someone is ck or experiencing personal or family dilemnas, that is where the whole concept of communication comes into play.

Regardless though, you still have my money and our transaction is still in play. It is up to me and only me to decide whether or not to be understanding of whatever may be going on in your life that is keeping you from fulfilling your end of the agreement.

No one in their right sense should be tting and waiting 6, 8, 10 months or a year for a product. There is no excuse in the world that would make this appropriate or right.

Not even a death in the immediate family warrants a customer waiting a year for a mask.

Yet, sooo many collectors do just that. They wait, and wait, and wait, and wait a little longer.

They will complain amongst themselves about the wait time constantly, but when the product does finally show up...ALL IS ALWAYS FORGIVEN!?!?!?!?!? WHY!?!?!?!? You finally got what you paid for and have been waiting so long for.

Just because you got it doesn't mean that the unbearable unethical wait time did not happen. Some collectors are scared to say anything while waiting for a product due to some makers being shady enough to send out shoddy stuff after being "called out".

Again, the buness agreement has been broken if they do that and you have every right to demand your money back.

Some collectors don't want to risk not being able to buy the "next big thing" from a mask maker if they complain too much.

Why in the Hell would you buy another mask or bust from someone who told you 4-6 weeks and it took a year???????? For the life of me I will never ever understand that approach to collecting. Some of my very close friends actually do this all the time.

Every time they go to complain, I politely tell them where they can stuff it and not to complain to me about something they fully knew would happen. Finally, for my last point in this long and tired tirade.....pricing.

When I first got involved in the independent mask hobby, I bought my very first "profesonal" hockey mask for around 120 bucks or so. This was for a original sculpt, fiberglass, ren coated hockey mask with custom paint. I fully knew what I was paying for and knew of the time that had gone into the product.

Now, compare the work that went into sculpting the hock, molding it, a negative/buck, the ren coating, the fiberglass laying...then all the detail and paint work to what it takes to make a hock today.

Today, the average hock maker gets a order of plastic hocks in from Ken or another source. They trim it down, drill the eye holes and vent holes..and then do the paint and detailing. There is nowhere near the amount of energy and work put into these new ones as compared to the old....but the prices have steadily risen on them.

Moving onto the world of latex and licone and ren masks/busts, it's a little more understandable. Alot more work goes into anything sculpted from the ground up, molded, casted, trimmed, painted, haired etc.... With all my werewolves, I always expect to pay more due to the obvious time spent on hairing and the like. I respect that and understand that.....but paying over a grand for a white mask with weathering?????????? I don't get it.

Same thing does for paying for a piece just because of who made it.

I expect to pay more for a stan winston, tom savini, rick baker, dick smith, etc.... piece.

I was not dropped on my head as a child that many times....They are great profesonal artists with a reputation and skill.

I am not gonna pay over a grand for a latex hollow mask though....especially condering what alot of masks

in that price range actually look like. I am not knocking mask makers or collectors specifically. These are my opinions and only my opinions. If you don't like them...then great.

That is the whole point in having opinions in the first place.

I apologize for this extremely long and posbly boring rant.

I also note that i veered off from at least part of the original question.

I hope that you guys, of all people, understand where I am coming from in respect to my feelings on the subject.

Take care, Tommy

and btw....I have been scammed...more than once...by more than one collector and more than one mask maker.

I will never ever buy another piece from a maker again, with maybe 2-3 exceptions....
Homicidal9 Monday 11/24/2008 at 10:02 PM | 25246